Hi everyone! Thank you so SO much for all your lovely empathetic comments on my interview disappointment. Very much appreciated, every word : )
You might like to hear why I didn't get the job...? And if you don't care, come back tomorrow and laugh at my fugly sewing!
I asked for feedback (natch) and had a clandestine meeting in a darkened room with the chair of the interview panel.
They were looking for "three key skillsets" and I failed on all three counts.
1 They wanted people to demonstrate not only that they had a passion but they could inspire others to feel that passion too. It was not enough that I was passionate about knitting: they had to leave the room inspired to take it up themselves.
Now... the phrase that comes to mind is "You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink"! If asking them to fondle and sniff yarn and showing them what it can do, and talking about how calm the process of knitting makes me feel (I may have used the words "takes me to my zen place"!) were not enough, they are never going to want to learn to knit! My tactic was "experiential learning"...
2 She said I didn't teach them anything. Actually, she backed down on this one - because she admitted I did actually teach them to recognise knit and purl stitches on a chart and see how that translated into fabric, and I asked them to "be" knits and purls in 3 dimensions. Now, given that the whole thing lasted only 15 minutes.... uh huh.
And considering where we work , it was somewhat surprising to be expected to "teach" in the old-style dictation-of-facts way. I didn't think it was the done thing to "teach" anymore: we "facilitate learning" (see previous comment about experiential wotsits...) It occurs to me that there were no academic staff on the panel, so they were not actually qualified to judge me on this one... and in any case, I was not applying for a teaching post. Go figure.
3. (This is the biggie.) I was "too empathetic". They wanted people who would NOT take "no" for an answer. They wanted me to say that if a Director refused to change their departmental working practices, I would stand my ground until they changed their mind and agreed to accept the New Regime.
I told them I would listen to the Director and try to persuade them of the Way the Truth and the Light, but that I would accept that sometimes a compromise is necessary. I would negotiate.
This was the Wrong Answer. I must NEVER back down.
Seriously?! Even though I am a low-grade admin person and they are HUGE in the hierarchy?! REALLY? Wow - that's a great way never to get past their PA ever again! If I behaved like that to certain key individuals they would delete all my emails unread and refuse to talk to me on the phone.Good luck with that approach!
Thank goodness I didn't get the job! Lucky escape!
OK - that's me done. I promise to get back to the interesting stitchy stuff at the weekend! ; )
My designs
About Me
- Roobeedoo
- I live with my First Love in a rural idyll, after a lifetime in exile. In July 2007 he was diagnosed with Multiple Myeloma: an incurable cancer of the blood plasma. We got married in December 2007. Carpe diem. There is lots of wind and sky where I live, which blows me away. I love reading and stitching and creating things. I have two lovely children, a dog and my First Love. The Roobeedoo Manifesto, January 2012: I hereby undertake to make all my own clothing or purchase it from ethically-minded independent designers. For now. For always.
25 comments:
So, I work as a low-grade admin person in a university, and it's EXACTLY these sorts of attitudes towards progression which make my blood BOIL.
I have some failed-interview feedback later on today myself. Wish me luck...
As a long time lurker I felt compelled to write, since I have been in the position myself, of losing a job like that, but also been on the other side of the table too.
My conclusion was the same as yours. It clearly was not for you and that's why you got the feedback you did. Like you said, a lucky escape.
What also strikes me that your true passion is for your long term objective, the veggie cafe etc. Hebden Bridge is a lovely place (I live nearby) but also short-hand for the lifestyle you hanker after and the kind of people you want to be around.
If you're really ready for a change then can you get closer, or part-way to this another way? It's not just about location, but the feeling of a place, who you work with and their ethos. Are there other jobs out there with this vibe, that get you somewhere towards where you want to go, and are achievable, practically, at this stage of your life?
I think if you follow your heart, but use your head, you will find something for you.
Best of luck on your journey.
This is unfortunately not surprising to me. I have worked in a uni (teaching) which has been completely overrun by admin staff like this - to the point where there are no academics / teaching staff on secure contracts - and admin dictate all teaching policy. Madness. But I'm sorry for your experience. Remember it is battle axes they want and you are not one! And they may well have had candidates in mind - sometimes these processes are pure lip service.
Well...that was a total heap of...well, you know. I am totally stunned by that. And...that crap about 'not backing down'...
I don't know for whom you work, but I confess this alarms me somewhat
and another thing! Suppose someone came to talk about their enthusiasm for shooting tigers. Are we all supposed to end up feeling enthused abot that?
Yes, if they want a rigid dictator, you are best off out of it. I am staggered on the empathy front. Empathy is a rare skill and hugely important in the work place. You don't often find staff with that skill (and it can't be taught) so when you come across someone like that, you hold on to them for dear life! To be rejected for empathy... That's crazy talk. It sounds as though that job would have made you miserable.
hmm. Sounds remarkably like post-rationalisation to me, justifying a decision that has been made in a more instinctive way. Can't quite say you're well out of it as you still work for the same organisation, but this move was definitely not for you. I like Bibliophile's analysis and comment above. xx
Wow. Just wow. I think it's really a good thing that you didn't get that job.
as my gran would say, what's for you won't go past you. it wasn't for you (and it sounds like having to behave in that way would not have been something you were happy with). never mind. at least you hopefully feel better about not getting it now.
Thank goddess you didn't get the job! Can you imagine the terminology you'd have to use???
What's stopping you, Your FL and Dog going to Hebden Bridge NOW???
Roo, I am so glad you found out. My daughter was out of a job for a year and was thrilled to get a new one. Now she is miserable, the money is good, but she is surrounded by people like you described. All her other jobs were working with people and reconciling people (medical clinic manager) which she is excellent at- this new one is in IT, setting systems for our new healthcare bit, sitting for hours trying to to teach medical staff and doctors to code a new way. Mind numbing, agressive people, etc. Narrow escape for you!
LindaC
Ugh, I have worked jobs where I've been surrounded by people who didn't believe in compromise - they would spend so much time screaming at each other, nothing productive ever got done. It doesn't sound like the job would have been a great fit, so you're probably better off missing out this time.
Also, I've never had the courage to ask for feedback... I know it's a good idea, but EEEK! You're braver than I am!
Yikes! They sound delusional about what's realistic ... talk about an environment that would set one up for failure. Whew --- good save, Roo! You totally dodged a bullet there! (Also, good for you for asking for feedback)
Lucky escape is right. What an interesting insight to the organisation. At least you know and get on with life .... and knitting:))
What a lucky escape. Sounds perfectly miserable in that work group. You deserve better than that organization. I am sure something better is just around the corner.
Those people are numpties
How delusional are they? As someone who works in an admin role (sorry, 'professional staff' role) in another seat of higher education, the concept of saying 'No' to the hierarchy, especially the academic hierarchy, is laughable. We know our place - we're 'bureaucrats', a much-employed term of abuse, often to our faces.
I was interested in Rachel's comment above. Not what life feels like to me on the wrong side of the academic/admin divide!
I've now accepted that I won't find any vestige of satisfaction in this environment so I'm just hanging on until I can escape to somewhere that sounds a lot like your alternative list.
I think you probably had a lucky escape...
Lucky escape indeed my dear, they sound completely clueless and ridiculous in their demands and expectations. I hope you find something a million times better and where you'll be fully appreciated!
That feedback really baffles me - but my Mum-in-law works for a university careers dept, and it all sounds very similar to what she describes. It's always disappointing and disheartening to not get a successful outcome, but it sounds like you had a lucky escape in this instance.
That last one is quite ridiculous! isn't the aim of any job to build good relationships with the people you work with and for? which you're not going to do by refusing to move an inch. I have had some very unproductive dealings with HR in my work recently, and I suspect they've been told similar things, because their idea of a discussion is to just repeat what their rules are over and over again. Then email/phone you several times saying the same thing again. It's quite infuriating. If I could find someone who at least acknowledged my problem, I would love them forever.
Also, they should be telling people in advance what competencies they will be assessing people against.
I am pretty shocked by this reasoning. It do agree that it sounds like post rationalization and you are probably lucky you didn't get sucked into that sphere.
I think you're well out of what would probably prove to be an extremely stressful and difficult role.
It's like a roller coaster! And I should probably have read to the end before saying anything, given how much catching up I set out to do tonight (now encroaching into the morning...) So pleased to hear that you can see the bullet you missed! And think of the practice you got sharing your passion... where could that take you in the future? :)
Sorry that you didn't get the job but in some ways I think the feedback that you got was really helpful if you want to continue on in your current organisation. A key thing to remember is that any interview process is not about being successful at the potential job it's about being successful at that particular selection process. I understand your and FL's frustration because of your qualities but it's actually about different things...
An organisation or company will have a certain style of selection that it uses primarily - even if that style is a chat down the pub! So, there is usually some sort of format and the point is to understand and know that format and to understand what that format is seeking to uncover. Different formats achieve different things and there are thought to be varying rates of success (in terms of finding 'suitable' candidates) of particular formats (but again, that can depend on what is thought of as suitable but that can often be worked out by looking at the culture of the organisation). Most organisations will claim that they have the perfect or least bad method for their ways - but there is fashion in these things!
To understand the format in use in your place, volunteer to be on interview panels or get internal training in interviewing, if that's possible where you work. Ask the chair of the inteview panel who gave you feedback to give you a mock interview where she would instruct you in the style that would have conveyed that you WERE teaching, that would have conveyed inspiring passion in others.
Now it's interesting that some of the feedback included that you should have said you'd never back down. I suspect that what they were looking for is exactly that - that you should have said that in the interview. Would you then go on and always behave in that way? Probably not, but it's about the interview process and what is being sought there...
Remember, it's about getting through that process so that you can THEN get to demonstrate your great qualities on the job.
Dear anonymous,
Thank you for your wise and helpful words.
I think the real issue is that my organisation does not have a set way of doing things, so every interview's style is at the whim of its panel members. My panel consisted of two very new members of staff, one from the corporate world and one from a very isolated area of the organisation who was probably there for the experience!
I approach these things from the standpoint that I am me and I am not going to pretend to be someone else. It makes rejection harder, but at elast it means I have eben true to myself!
Thanks again though - I really value your thoughts!
roo
It is a rare organization that has established it's culture and mission effectively enough so that EVERYONE has aligned with it and can group-speak.
It seems like the lesson here, for you as well as your readers, is knowing that the interview process is really NOT so much about the job as whether or not the team doing the interviewing LIKE you and your philosophy in conjunction with their objectives.... much like Thomas Cromwell interviewing people to work with Henry VIII... he was less interested in their skills and more concerned with whether or not they would be malleable to his objectives. We all know what happened to him eventually.
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